Traduction de l’émission
Faite le 03 fev 2019 par Caro
Show C à Vous (France 5) of January 16, 2019.
« He denounces police violence »
0-0.25 The demonstrations of the yellow vests gave rise to outbursts from the demonstrators, but several hundred reports of police violence were felt, in particular by David Dufresne, a specialist in the issue of maintaining order, who denounces a repression that will leave its mark on a whole generation, he is with us this evening.
0.25-1.00 Good evening David Dufresne, writer, journalist, documentary filmmaker. You have been interested in policing issues for a long time. You made a film and a book about it after the 2005 suburban riots and the anti-CPE demonstartions of 2006. From the first demonstrations and violence, in recent months, you have been struck by the very frequent and even excessive use of flash-balls.
1 -1.15 The flash-balls used today in France (called LBDs for defense ball) are made in Switzerland and are of high-precision.
1.13- 1.30 So when they told us, at the beginning, for the first mutilated, because it is mutilated people we are talking about, that the weapons were not very precise, that it was not the fault of the police officers, that is totally false. These are weapons that have been purchased because they are extremely accurate.
1.30- 1.52 These are 40 mm rubber bullets. Non-lethal weapons, or supposedly non-lethal weapons but as they do not kill, the police have trivialized its use, as you say. We know that hundreds of bullets are fired every weekend during yellow vests demonstrations
1.53- 2.16 In fact, french-style policing, which for a very long time was « we don’t go to the contatct », which was to show its strength not to use it, has hardened over the last ten years. This hardening is linked to the use of the LBD, which are said to be of reduced lethality, which obviously means nothing or everything, or non-letal or of intermediate force.
2.17-2.33 But all this is a joke, because in reality, in terms of policing, these weapons should be banned. In any case, these are the claims of rights defenders, they are the recommendations of all European countries that do not use them. And France insists and uses them all the time.
2.34-3.03 They use them but in the usual instructions this should be reserved for defence situations as a last resort. Because the TV channel France 3 revealed a letter from the Director of national police reminding them of the conditions for using LBDs, including the fact that they should only target the chest and legs and certainly not the head.
3.04-3.21 There you go. And what I started to see at the end of November, early December 2018, were people whose faces were targeted. Today, 15 people have lost an eye because they came to protest because of these bullets.
3.22-3.46 We will see some pictures but let’s talk before we talk about numbers, the police have to go back to their hierarchy on the use of LBDs, in specific files. Without having access to all of these files, for the day of December 1, 2018, the police fired 776 LBDs as reported in a news papers. Was is quite important.
3.46-4.07 So since November, there have been serious injuries, not just bruises, as you said, people who have lost eyes, hands, teeths, we will come back to that. Here are images from various sources including some you have collected on your Twitter account.
4.10-4.20 They’re shooting in the pile. Right across the street there were guys breaking. No, they were shooting in front, but not at these people.
4.36-4.42We feel like they’ve been instructed to let go, guys. They have fun today.
4.44- 4.55 Yeah, in your face! Bouyaka bouyaka bouyaka! Recharge, recharge! You son of a bitch! Voted!
4.48 5.05 I got a flash ball at that level and I fell to the ground for an hour, I was out. I have a broken jaw, 5 broken teeth at this level, maybe paralisia, they don’t know much.
5.06- 5.11 Show me, how big it is.
220.127.116.11 Are most of the serious injuries due to LBDs, David Dufresne?
5.21-5.37 From what I can understand, yes, but as you said, there is also a silence that adds to the violence. We do not know how many we know about how many weapons are used, we do not know very well how many people are injured and by which weapons. But mainly these are the LBD.
5.40-5.53 There are images that you shot and that I have recovered that are terrifying (Bouyaka, voted etc). And they are enlightening because if you look at them, they are plainclothes police officers, and that’s the whole problem.
5.54-6.01 Why, were they not well trained? No. In fact, they are not trained at all in maintaining order.
6.02-6.15 It’s the BAC (Frensh Crime squad), it’s basically people who are used to make arrests, who are in an environment they can feel hostile, which is sometimes hostile.
Which can actually be.
6.18-6.29 Yes, but. How to say. When the CRS (Republican security company) tells me about the BAC, they say they are Cowboys, they are at war.
Some CRS unions are beginning to denounce it.
6.30- 6.50 BAC police officers routinely use these LBD in any other condition, but when faced with a crowd that is moving, that does not understand what is happening, that is not informed by the police, we arrive at these dramatic moments.
6.52- 7.20 You yourself have counted the various wounded on your Twitter account « Checknews » of the liberation newspaper reported 94 serious injuries, 68 of which were caused by LBD fire with 14 eyes lost.
7.22- 7.41 Yes, we work in concert with Libération by going deeper to get the information. Today, families are writing to me to talk about it, but today it’s great, we’re talking about it. But for 2 months, it was denial, political denial, media denial, there was almost nothing.
7.41-7.49 Even though there were a few that we sent to you.
7.50-7.59 We will see what the Minister of the Interior, Christophe Castaner, who was questioned yesterday on the issue, said:
8.0-8.15″I don’t know any police officers or gendarmes who have attacked Yellow vests. On the other hand, I do know police officers who have used defences, defences of the republic and public order. There is no freedom without public order. I’ve never seen a policeman attack a Yellow Vest or a journalist.
8.15- 8.23 On the other hand, I have seen some people systematically attacking our security forces and also attacking journalists.
8.24-8.34 The Police officers are only defending themselves, says C Castaner, and it is true that we could have made a anthology of police officers attacked and violently attacked by rioters.
8.35- 8.50 Yes, but that’s where the image is not enough. You need a minimum of knowledge. And it is important that you show Mr. Castaner , being the Interior Minister he is the Chief of Police.
8.50-9.06 The maintenance of order is the most politicized police force. It directly obeys to politics, to the prefects (governors) who are the representative of the state. They are themselves under the orders of Castaner, who himself may receives directives above
9.07-9.15 The maintenance of order is knowing how to absorb blows. That’s it! It’s containing the crowd
9.15-9.21 Yes, but it’s nine weeks in a row.
Yeah, we’re definitely in a stretch.
9.23- But it’s a form of riot that we hadn’t known before.
Wrong, wrong, wrong.
Yes, on the first Saturdays, there was a new form to which the police had to adapt.
9.30 9.55 NO, What is new is the repetition. It’s that there are people who come every Saturday knowing they can lose an eye. This determination awaits a political and not a police response. The police themselves say it, a police union has tweeted « It’s not a Football game »,
9.55 – 10.10 just after the speech of Prime Minister Edouard Philippe on January 7 which announced 80,000 police officers at the upcoming demonstrations. It’s not yellow vests against police officers, the answer will be political.
10.10-10.15 And Mr. Castaner’s denial by saying, « I don’t know anything about it is absolutely unprecedented.
10.16- 10.24 Since the beginning of the police movement, we have had police officers who have said, « They wanted to kill me, I was afraid for my life. Has this ever happened in previous movements? I am not sure.
10.26- 10.40 Yes of course. Yes, you are taking the peasant demonstrations, with the parliament of Brittany burning in 1994, the whole parliament!
10.40- 10.46 We must be careful with these historical comparisons, i.e. it is always new etc.
It’s always more violent ?
10.47-11.03 What may be more violent, are police officers calling me and saying, « Saturday I kept in maintenance of order, I have to go buy my protection. »
11.03-11.12 Of course, they are afraid, they are not trained, they are not equipped. We are therefore creating a climate that is extremely catastrophic.
11.14-11.25 The climate is clearly to return to order, since January’s greetings, Castaner’s speeches, the first thing is to put things in order.
11.26 -11.35 Yes, when Mr. Castaner says that these are the weapons of the republic, he is right. The problem is that the French Republic uses weapons that others do not use. So let’s talk about that, let’s raise the debate, otherwise it’s going to be every Saturday like that?